About those speed bumps

"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove) 02/03/2019 at 00:17 • Filed to: Neighborhood drama

0

58

As I posted earlier, my HOA is planning to put in speed bumps in our neighborhood. The email debate has been raging all day, and the drama level is increasing as people get more emotional. I don’t like speed bumps, but this is all making me want to find out what is really known about how these affect cars and communities.

What do they do to a car’s suspension driving them day in and day out? Bumps are worse than humps from what I’ve seen.

Do speed bumps slow emergency vehicles appreciably?

Do people really slow down or just accelerate between the bumps and become more dangerous?

Do these bumps have any influence on home values?

I’m researching and will keep doing so. Some of you made some great comments and suggestions on my previous post, especially about how discontinuous humps slow traffic without obstructing bicycles. If any of you have any more  data our resources to add, I’d appreciate it. I want to go to the board with useful information so that if they really do this, that it’s as benign as possible. Link to previous post:

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 00:29

5

These are by far the best speed bump/humps in my opinion. Used all over Kirkland and Redmond, WA. Clearly marked with signs and white paint. They are discontinuous and you can hit them at 25 mph all day long with no fuss. They are easy on suspensions and thus don’t produce noise pollution or dramatically accelerate vehicle wear.

Home values? Good question. If you make them those shitty bumps that stick up 6" over only 12" of travel, that probably won’t make your neighborhood desirable to travel though twice a day for homeowners.

I hate speed bumps but there are good ways to do them if an entity insists. Please push them to consider wider, discontinuous bumps with a small rise. The goal is to help deter speeding, not to piss everyone off.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 00:33

1

i have no issues with them, as for slowing emergency services?

fire trucks are usually wide enough to straddle them, as the humps don’t generally go all the way (unless things are different in the US)

it’ll only cause minimal wear on suspension/brakes

overall, if i were you, just say yes to it and don’t worry

Chariotoflove > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 02/03/2019 at 00:36

0

I’m going to do exactly that. I have personal issues as well. My wheelchair has great difficulty negotiating humps, and I’m going to make sure they remember that I’ve been living and serving here for 18 years, and they should pay attention to that.

Another little issue is that they are planning on putting asphalt humps on our concrete streets. I can’t imagine how it won’t look tacky.

I think your recommendation is a good one.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 00:38

2

or buy a pre-runner & blast over them all day.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 00:39

0

Sounds like your neighborhood must not have sidewalks on both sides then? If so, you MUST insist they consider discontinuous bumps. You’re not -- and won’t be -- the only mobility-challenged resident in that neighborhood. They can’t design things to inconvenience pedestrians, the very people they say they want to protect.

Chariotoflove > pip bip - choose Corrour 02/03/2019 at 00:42

0

If we’re gonna do it then I’ll try to make sure we do it right. I would like to make sure, for instance, that we don’t make it hard for me in my wheelchair to go down my own street or for kids to ride their bikes. If we can identify and address the relevant issues, I think it will be less likely to be something we regret later. 

Chariotoflove > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 02/03/2019 at 00:42

0

Could work. 

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 00:43

1

I think those bumps like Zoidberg posted are designed to be straddled by larger emergency vehicles like ambulances and fire engines. And my Odyssey. They are the best option. 

facw > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 00:49

7

A few things:

Site with lots of info about pros and cons of various methods: https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/traffic_calm.cfm

Effectiveness numbers from various studies: https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/eng_count/2014/reducing_speed.cfm  (doesn’t list things like acceleration or accident rates, but it lists sources, so you can dig into the underlying studies if needed)

wafflesnfalafel > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 00:50

0

the only reason you should put speed bumps in is if your insurance carrier requires it

Chariotoflove > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 02/03/2019 at 00:50

2

We do have sidewalks. But here’s the thing. Every driveway intersection with the sidewalk is a treacherous elevation change and obstacle, and in between those are the mailboxes built into brick enclosures when they built the place. So in practice staying on the sidewalk has never been practical. I weave on and off like an obstacle course as I go down the cul de sac.

And I accept that I have to accommodate the world even more than it accommodates me if I expect to live independently in a chair. I just don’t  want to have more thrown at me in front of my own home.

His Stigness > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 00:51

3

I can only speak to how they affect vehicles.

Even if you had stupidly large speed bumps they will NOT adversely affect the vehicles IF they don’t speed.

Assuming a vehicle complies with all sections of the vehicle code and is not super low or modded out (California has a vehicle code section which sort of mandates minimal vehicle height), they will not be damaged.

Credentials: ASE Master Technician, ASE Advanced Level Specialist, and ASE Undercar Specialist.

facw > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 00:52

4

I’ve learned that these are called speed cushions, and apparently you can get them made of rubber, which would be easier to install on concrete streets (and easier to remove if it later turns out this was a bad idea):

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 02/03/2019 at 00:55

0

I agree, and I’ll push for them if we are really doing it.

Chariotoflove > facw 02/03/2019 at 00:56

0

That looks like a good option. 

Chariotoflove > His Stigness 02/03/2019 at 00:57

0

Okay, that’s reassuring. I’ve been seeing sites in my googling that talk about damage from speed bumps, but I haven’t had time yet to click through and critically evaluate them. 

Chariotoflove > facw 02/03/2019 at 00:58

1

That’s really useful. Thank you. 

Chariotoflove > wafflesnfalafel 02/03/2019 at 00:58

0

I’ve never heard of that before. 

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 00:59

3

I live in a very pedestrian-friendly neighborhood. I am one of a very few homes that has a street-facing garage (thus, an obstacle for one such as yourself), but even then the dip is quite subtle. No crazy drop like in so many new developments. Sidewalks are frequently repaired. Trees with roots that tear up the walk and create trip hazards/insurmountable obstacles are removed.

I will be sure to link you some good reading material. On one of the oldest neighborhoods here, they are “discussing” removing these old, beautiful sycamore trees that are tearing up sidewalks to the point where even I’m tripping over them. Thus many parts where a wheelchair could never pass. I was at a neighborhood meeting where the mayor appeared and I can’t tell you how tense the room was about it. But in my opinion, sidewalks exist to help pedestrians of all types travel. If disabled people can’t get over them, they basically have no purpose whatsoever.

Chariotoflove > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 02/03/2019 at 01:02

0

Thanks. That’s appreciated. I’ll gladly read whatever you send. 

facw > His Stigness 02/03/2019 at 01:07

3

You definitely haven’t met the speed bumps here. Granted, I find it entirely possible they weren’t built to a “safe” standard, and even if they were, the asphalt is damaged on some of them, which no doubt alters their behavior a bit.

Spanfeller is a twat > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 01:11

1

I live in a city with tons of speed humps and I can assure you that they do slow drivers down. Many speed humps here are badly designed, which means I need to drive my car extra slowly around them.

But I recognize that those bumps are the only things keeping us under the posted limit. They reduce fuel economy, and can cause bottle necks but in a residential area, I see more benefits than issues, specially because of safety.

About emergency vehicles, they just blow past them here. Most are trucks so they don’t have an issue. Plus, even emergency vehicles need to follow the speed limit.

I remeber that when I went to San Luis Potosi the ring road (which is supposed to be a high speed road I guess) was filled with speedhumps and the signeage read “If you don’t want bumps, let off the pedal”

pip bip - choose Corrour > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 01:11

1

no footpath/sidewalk?

kids will like humps as they’ll go fast and try and get some air 

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 01:13

1

I should have brought an audio recorder. There was this old bag who kept interrupting the mayor (very rude, regardless of politics), interjecting that, “Those trees never hurt anyone! I’ve lived there for 30 years!” And when the mayor specifically mentioned people in wheelchairs, she audibly groaned. Pardon my french, but what an inconsiderate cunt.

His Stigness > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 01:14

2

I’m sure they talk about damage when you go too fast.

On normal speed bumps, like the ones in this funny video in which someone was more pissed off than me, the only way you could damage your car is if you either have pre-existing damage, or your car is not maintained at all. You can also crack cheap wheels if you speed, or blow out your tire if you have rubber bands for tires. But, again, you would have to be going really, really fast. There would not be any liability with the HOA if any of that happened.

For speed humps, kind of like the ones Zoidberg is calling for, you can scrape the bottom of your car if your car is way too low. It will not damage any stock vehicle as the humps are designed in such a way as to allow even lower stock cars to pass just fine.

His Stigness > facw 02/03/2019 at 01:20

0

There are some annoyingly tall ones, but you just have to go slower to avoid damage to your car. In the years I was driving my lowered Mercedes I never damaged my car. 

jminer > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 01:23

2

Not super helpful, but we live in an unorganized community and a guy decided to put a speed bump in front of his house. It angered the rest of us, we decided that it was time to maintain the road, and ordered in gravel, with a couple extra loads in front of this guys house to bury the bump unde r like 8 inches

It worked and he never rebuilt it after that, this won’t really work in your situation but it’s all the feedback I have to offer on this.

facw > His Stigness 02/03/2019 at 01:24

1

There’s one near my parents where I bottom out every time, regardless of speed (only from one direction), in my Volvo S60 which I’d say has roughly average clearance for a car .

Dogsatemypants > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 01:31

1

The speed bumps in my neighborhood are terrible. More like half curbs in the middle of the street. I have seen several cars that do not appear modified high center their exhaust or lose a skid plate. I just take them at twice the posted limit amd catch air.

DipodomysDeserti > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 01:41

1

When people sped down my street as a kid, my dad just threw footballs, baseballs, bats etc. at their cars. Seemed pretty effective at calming traffic. No speed bump needed.

facw > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 01:44

0

One thing to note is that the ePrimer is talking about speed humps as distinct from speed bumps (which it says are inappropriate for public roadways, apparently to the point where it doesn’t even include a speed bump section ), and speed bumps are probably what your HOA is considering.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > DipodomysDeserti 02/03/2019 at 01:46

1

The good old days. Do that today and someone will pull out a gun.

ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 01:54

1

I have little useful to add here, but I’ll point out that every kid in the neighborhood (it sounds like you have those; I now live in a neighborhood of primarily old people) should be rooting hard for speed bumps. Humps don’t do anything for you as a kid, but speed bumps are awesome. The higher and steeper the better, or at least the better for hitting as hard and as fast as you can with your mountain bike for maximum air. I find them annoying now, but my 10 year old self loved speed bumps.

Actually, I might have something minimally useful to add. We did this in our old neighborhood a few years ago. The town ended up bolting speed bumps to the street. They were seriously annoying, as I had to slow to a crawl and saddle them at an angle to not high center the corvette I was daily driving on the frame rails right behind the front wheels. I should add this was a C4 at stock ride height, so they would’ve been a bigger problem in a modern vette (to the point that I would’ve gone rounds with the town via lawsuit if I owned a newer one and couldn’t drive down my paved, suburban street. And given the financial straights the town was in at the time, it could not have afforded to go rounds with me and any more easily than I could’ve from my end). A few town councilors and a few neighbors started this whole thing with the “we have to do this for the children” bit, which is generally how I know that anything that follows is extraordinarily unlikely to have  merit .

One of the speed bumps was placed right in front of my house. It sucked. Instead of people speeding past the house, we got to hear the squealing of brakes outside the house all day and night, and then the sound of everyone hitting the gas to accelerate from nearly a stop again.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > His Stigness 02/03/2019 at 02:17

2

I know of a set where I once bottomed out a then-brand-new C6 Corvette. Haven’t driven over that set again since. This was a base model , unmodified, with less than 50 miles on it. This was at a crawling speed.

I know of another set where I bottomed out my sportster a few years ago. Unmodified. Crawling speed.

My point is, a lot of speed bumps are just thrown in with no thought or regard to how they affect anything. I know of a ton of them where the bumps are so severe that even trying to take them at their posted speeds of 10-15mph will jar and damage anything with less ground clearance than a Rav4.

But this is Portland. We don’t exactly have a properly engineered city or infrastructure to begin with. Why would speed  bumps be any better?

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 02:19

0

Speed bumps are there second worst. Beaten out only by HOA's. See my response to his stigness.

Jay, the practical enthusiast > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 02:31

1

I avoid shopping plazas with speed bumps. I couldn’t possibly live in a neighborhood with them. They definitely affect home values. 

Monkey B > pip bip - choose Corrour 02/03/2019 at 07:10

0

in the states we don’t really do neighborhood sidewalks anymore. Everyone likes to complain about it but even in my neighborhood (built in the 60's) people use the street more than the sidewalk...I even see older people walking in the street vs. the sidewalk. Most new developments here in the M id Atlantic region elect for wider roads sans walkways.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 08:49

1

A lot of the other comments cover things well. Bear in mind that you need to get terminology straight, as in my experience different jurisdictions will call the 10 foot wide devices speed bumps, speed humps, or even speed tables.

In my opinion one of the most important things is arrows painted or otherwise marked on the device so that it is distinguishable. While an asphalt or rubber device on a concrete roadway should stand out, the spacing in the arrows also helps drivers determine where the device is and how quickly they are approaching it.

Finally, I’ll add that your HOA should bear in mind not only the installation cost, but also the long-term maintenance costs. Rubber devices attached to a concrete surface will deteriorate the concrete more quickly than regular travel. Resurfacing cost of the roadway is increased by removal and replacement of speed tables/humps/bumps as compared to simple removal and replacement of regular roadway surface.

farscythe - makin da cawfee! > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 10:45

0

Do people really slow down or just accelerate between the bumps and become more dangerous?

over here the locals know exactly how fast they can hit the bumps and not bottom out and slow down exactly that much... if at all

tourists will brake to a near crawl for every bump they find and generally irritate the locals by doing so

66P1800inpieces > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 02/03/2019 at 10:47

0

I drove a E-250 van for work and found 10mph or so was more comfortable than totally slowing down.

DipodomysDeserti > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 02/03/2019 at 11:01

0

There was a real possibility of that happening then too. I remember one morning, a few days after Christmas, seeing my neighbor walking down the  street with a pistol looking for the person who stole his kid’s bike.

My bird IS the word > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 11:33

0

Is it just me, but it seems like accommodation for handicapped people was bigger in the 90s and early 2000s than it is nowadays? You shouldn’t have to qualify with “ I’ve lived here for 18 years” having issues with your chair should be enough.

I hardly hear anything about that anymore.

Urambo Tauro > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 13:14

1

Already mentioned this in the other post, but people definitely do speed up between bumps.

As someone who is already careful not to speed through residential areas, I REALLY don’t appreciate being punished along with the speeders. Granted, obeying the speed limit prevent the bumps from actually damaging my car , but it’s still extremely annoying and pisses me off to the point where I actually WANT to speed between bumps to make up for the time lost slowing down for each one. I would never have been so inclined if the bumps hadn’t been installed in the first place.

If I HAD to pick a place for speed bumps, I would put them in places where stopping, or at least slowing WAY down is already a necessity. Like leading up to a blind corner, or a stop sign. I wouldn’t put it AT the stop sign, though. Maybe just about 20-25  feet before it, so that it doesn’t disturb acceleration from that stop .

His Stigness > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/03/2019 at 14:33

1

That’s the problem. And I meant to clarify in my original post that the speed bump should be built correctly.

Chariotoflove > My bird IS the word 02/03/2019 at 20:56

0

It seemed like a big deal when the push was on for legislation like the ADA. I think nowadays a lot of people assume the problem’s been solved and they have moved on.

I’m not one of those people who likes to raise my hand and ask for attention and free stuff, but I do definitely feel these days like there is a need to speak up when these issues come down the pike.  I guarantee no one in this neighborhood, including my friends who have lived next to me for years, has yet thought of the effects on me.

Chariotoflove > pip bip - choose Corrour 02/03/2019 at 21:01

0

There is sidewalk, but where it crosses a driveway there is a treacherous bump/angle. Also, every house has a brick mail box pede stal built on the sidewalk in front of it.  So in practice, I end up slaloming on and off the sidewalk as I go down the street, or in some sections just stay on the street.

Chariotoflove > ITA97, now with more Jag @ opposite-lock.com 02/03/2019 at 21:05

1

We have plenty of adult bike riders too. Along with the little ones we have, there will be face plants. If I can get the discontinuous ones though, we have a shot at fewer boo boos.

I pray I don’t get one in front of my house. 

Chariotoflove > jminer 02/03/2019 at 21:06

0

I still like that story.

Chariotoflove > LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com 02/03/2019 at 21:09

1

And we have been looking at the costs of maintaining the concrete streets for some years now. We are getting plenty of cracks and have had to redo many sections of sidewalk. I fear we are asking for lots more cost down the road with these humps.

I’m going to give some very detailed comments to the community on what we should get.  They are describing humps, but we need to get more specific than that.

Chariotoflove > Urambo Tauro 02/03/2019 at 21:11

1

I feel the same way. I was the one who posted the 15 mph limit years ago, and I always observe it. Now I have all this to deal with because delivery trucks and several residents can’t cool their jets.

I live on a cul de sac.  The spacing between driveways doesn’t leave a lot of room for a hump.  I’m not sure what they are planning.

Chariotoflove > farscythe - makin da cawfee! 02/03/2019 at 21:12

1

Some people do and some don’t.  The ones who accelerate are usually the jerks whose speeding brought us this entire issue.

Chariotoflove > Jay, the practical enthusiast 02/03/2019 at 21:29

0

I need to find some hard data on that.

My bird IS the word > Chariotoflove 02/03/2019 at 23:03

1

I wouldn't take that personally. People usually fall into the trap of only how it affects themselves

Chariotoflove > My bird IS the word 02/03/2019 at 23:59

0

Oh absolutely. If I took it personally, I’d be a better old man. The fact is, most people are quite sympathetic and cooperative if properly informed. A friend and I started an organization in college based on this cooperative spirit. We identified obstacles that the University didn’t understand were obstacles, and we worked with them to fix them before they became a problem for someone else. It worked pretty well, but it wouldn’t have if the people we dealt with were truly apathetic or adversarial. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove 02/04/2019 at 09:32

1

I’m so glad I moved out to the country... 

Chariotoflove > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/04/2019 at 11:23

1

I grew up on the edge of country. It was great. Unfortunately there’s always something. A few years ago, the gas company forced the removal of several old trees from or property line just because they wanted unreasonable amounts of clearance. My dad has to get a lawyer to negotiate a compromise. 

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > Chariotoflove 02/04/2019 at 12:11

1

That sucks. I’m hoping our kids remember their home in the sticks as fondly as you do now.

Chariotoflove > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 02/04/2019 at 12:28

1

I was truly blest.